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[Button Pushing] Golly Dave, BYU wouldn't want to give improper-looking people assistance, information, and guidance would they? That wouldn't be Christ-like, now would it? [/Button Pushing]

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Am I the only one who gets chills from the phrase "Honor Code Office"? You just can't make this stuff up.

After taking a few moments to review the simple Honor Code that has endured for eight decades at Stanford, I am having a hard time understanding how the extraneous issues that the HBL Library has been ignoring can possibly be related to the subject of Honor Codes. I don't think that I ever really ran afoul of the ersatz Honor Code at the Zoo in the pleasant couple of years that I spent there, but I am still surprised that in its over-elaborate detail it manages to omit a key point of the Stanford Honor Code: "The faculty on its part manifests its confidence in the honor of its students by refraining from proctoring examinations and from taking unusual and unreasonable precautions to prevent the forms of dishonesty mentioned above." It probably makes a difference that the Honor Code at Stanford was originally written and adopted by students. I wonder if there is a way to combine the morality and decency that BYU tries to promote with the mutual respect that Stanford tries to promote. Even if it isn't easy, it will at least be a noble aim.

Ned, maybe your reaction just shows what a shady character you really are. I'm sure they could provide some reeducation services to realign your thinking on the subject should you ever decide to further your education at the BYU.

Steve S, I'm sorry, I missed that. What school did you go to again?

FWIW, BYU's "Honor Code" was developed in the 1940s by the Blue Key Honor Society -- one of the fraternity-like social organizations that has managed to remain at BYU because of its emphasis on academics.

The dress and grooming standards portion of the code was NOT developed by Blue Key -- it was added by the University during the Wilkinson years (1950s to early 1970s) after Blue Key gave management of the Honor Code to the University. It was originally very similar to the Standford code.

Dave, you know I'm a negative nelly. I need to be sent to the re-Neducation center, post-haste. It's bliss. (Apologies to those who don't watch the Simpsons.)

i still proudly have my letter from the honor code office stating that i attempted to take a test in the testing center w/ more than a 24-hour growth of facial hair.

i don't see what the dress and grooming standards have to do w/ honor.

It's interesting that such a simple thing, years in my past, can still get my blood pressure rising.

While reading the story, several times the question came to my mind, "Is the honor code created for the students, or the students for the honor code?" (If BYU ever shuts down, look out Provo. The Honor Code must survive!)

The story says that students began wearing shorts in 1996, but I was there before then and shorts were not taboo. (Although they still were at Ricks.)

Gadzooks, I hope there is none of this silliness in the next life. I don't know if I can take it. ("Yeah, I made it to the celestial kingdom, but I hang out in the terrestrial a lot because I don't like to shave every day.")

The part of the whole honor code issue is the word honor. How can there be honor in being forced to conform or be expelled (maybe)? What honor is there in teaching young people to narc on other students?

I was so glad when a relative of mine decided not to go to BYU this year. She is flamboyant and would have suffered horribly there under such a stringent honor code.

Now they will deny library usage under the dress code? Horrible.

Does this mean they will interrogate me about whther or not I am a student before they don't answer my questions because of my beard, even though I stopped being a student there in the 1980s?

So when Jesus comes to inspect the library at his university he's going to be kicked out.

To repeat my mot du jour:

This stuff is CRAZY, I tell you, CRAZY.

What kind of lesson will we teach these adults who pay us several thousand dollars a year to be educated at this university if we allow them to check out books without conforming with the proper grooming standards that they signed and agreed with upon entering the university? Integrity can be a painful lesson.

(note: pandering, patronizing, paternalistic tone not my own)

Nick: Maybe the lesson we teach is that sometimes it is best to teach people correct principles about honesty and integrity and let them govern themselves. What lesson do we teach when we let people worship with us or receive welfare assistance from us when they fail to strictly comply with all the covenants they made at baptism or in the temple? I am rather attracted by that particular lesson.

Where does this idea come from that every promise must be enforced with whatever power we can bring to bear?

So, why all the huff & puff? If the Board of Trustees at BYU is fine with the policy, who are we to criticize?

As most things that deal with administration at BYU are, this issue is all about organizational control. Really, how many bearded people trying to check out books does BYU get on the average day? Not enough for anyone to worry about. The biggest violation made here was that the Honor Code office was left out of the loop.

It saddens me to see that the commenters here are so devoid of the Spirit that they cannot see the righteous hand of the Lord working through the BYU administration's every edict. If you all would read your scriptures as President Hinckley as commanded, you'd be in tune enough to recognize that having long hair, multiple piercings and tattoos is part of Satan's plan to drag the Lord's children straight down to Hell. I mean, have you guys ever talked to men with long hair? I haven't, but from what I hear, they are all sex-crazed, drug-addicted predators, and they are likely to rob you of your virtue at the drop of a hat. Thank goodness the Honor Code Office keeps out the riff-raff. Now at least I can go to the library without having to worry about being assaulted.

I hear that men with earrings are all perverts, and that women with multiple piercings have loose morals too. Thank goodness BYU has rules that separate the righteous from the unrighteous. They help those of us who might not otherwise be able to tell the difference, and that is a valuable service.

My child's elementary school has a dress code. Local, public school. What is the big deal! Schools have traditionally had dress codes if they feel it brings a better learning environment for the students.
Not everything at BYU is about the gospel. Where in the gospel does it say that if you fail lots of classes you can't be a member anymore. Yet, if you fail lots of classes you can get kicked out of BYU.
There is a difference!!! BYU is not the church.
No one has to go to BYU to be an active member. If you really enjoy having a beard, then don't go to BYU.
If you aren't compliant with the dress code of an educational institution, or any part of their honor code, then don't expect to go on campus and use the services of the school.

Its not about BYU's right to have an honor code, its about treating people like dirt.

This is what "enlightenment" and "fullness of the gospel" has led us to?

Not answering questions or offering assistance to those who do not "appear" correctly is hardly behavior that any group claiming to be "Christian" should be proud of. Wouldn't Jesus be proud of our actions and the love shown to those that do not comply with such petty laws. It is no wonder so many Latter-day Saints struggle with actually feeling the love and blessings of a loving Heavenly Father and the Atonment of a loving Savior.

What is the next Jello Jihad to be issued from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Pharisees?

lsdblotterart: C'mon, drop another tab and give up on the cutesy namecalling and scarequotes.

Corect me if I'm wrong, but didn't they try to extend the grooming code to sports teams visiting BYU?

The BYU library must serve the public, regardless of their appearance or adherence to any honor code, by virtue of the fact that the library is a selective federal depository for U.S. government documents. If they were to restrict access to the materials due to how one was dressed, or for any other reasons, they would be in violation of federal law, as well as discriminating against individuals whose tax dollars go to provide some of the materials in the library.

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