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To me it seems that they are worked up due to that some feel that no apology is needed; any attacks are factual and might help some Mormons become real Christians; and the Mormons DO know, on some level, that they are in a false church.

This is all opinion and speculative, however.

I am impressed that the Deseret News is directly linking to a web site that some might consider "anti-Mormon". Some very controversial stuff is just a mouseclick away from the IIR page referenced in the Deseret News article.

Wakarusa, that is rather surprising. IRR has a fairly slick template and an innocuous, upbeat name ("research" sounds positive). Maybe the DN's author was not familiar with the site and was not aware of the full range of content carried at IRR.

I recently read the article mentioned above and two things struck me most forcefully about the quotes from those who objected to the "apology"....
1. that what Mormons really want to do is "become Mainstream" and,
2. that we target people who are "ignorant of what Mormonism is really about" (paraphrasing, sorry). After 24 years in the Church (this year) I admit I am still surprised at some of the statements made by those who object to the Church - not because people continue to feel this way about the Church, but that making remarks like this is more revealing of their prejudices and bias than will help them "turn Mormons to the truth". This is the first site I've seen that addresses this article, but I also haven't had an opportunity to see other LDS forums to note if this article is addressed. Thanks for a great site!

jj, thanks for the comment. First-time visitors and commentors are always much appreciated here. Increasingly, religionists who move from simple disagreement to wholehearted complaining about the Church seem to come across as whiners and gripers. They just can't help blurting out their real beef at some point in their list of complaints -- They're just not Christian enought to suit our religious tastes -- which makes them sound dogmatic and intolerant to today's secular, post-Christian world.

I, like most, found the whole Mouw controversy rather curious and funny in a way. However I do think there might be at least one valid point to it all. Is it fair to expect Evangelicals to apologize to us if we don't apologize for some of our activities in the other direction? Meaning how we've sometimes expressed our theology of the apostasy rather impolitely. I don't think Mormons mind if Evangelicals consider us Christian heretics. After all we effectively think the same of them. But can't we do so in more polite ways?

Now I do think that Evangelicals are responsibel for the brunt of the excesses here. (I went on my mission in the south and recall all the anti in various churches) Frankly I've never heard the apostasy ever discussed in church with the vitriol that some Christians have expressed towards our church. Yet I can also think of cringe inducing moments - not to mention the whole "church of the devil" misapplication from Nephi.

A small point, but a point nonetheless.

re: Clark Gable -

regarding "Is it fair to expect Evangelicals to apologize to us if we don't apologize for some of our activities in the other direction...."
I just recently described this to someone in the political arena - please don't be afraid to tell me that it doesn't apply to the religious:
I view the "left" saying that "conservatives" must mend fences in this manner: I would liken it to a neighbor throwing his dog poop over the fence in the neighbor's yard and then telling the neighbor that he/she must mend fences for the neighbor having to clean up the mess (it was in relation to our "allies" telling our government that WE must mend fences for their throwing the poop over the fence) - on occasion I view anti-Mormon's in the same light - they say whatever vitriol they want, but the Mormon's must "apologize" - yes, I am going to the extreme in my example, but it has definitely come to that today. I say, "Bless you, Heavenly Father, for the Book of Mormon and the additional light we have been given." We know that Jesus said when he visited the Nephites after his resurrection, "contention is not of Me, but of the devil" does that mean Mormons never apologize in disputes? Of course not! But let us remember that the enemies of the Church wait and pounce on "weakness" and use it against us - saying "See! They acknowledge they are wrong!" I have had personal experience with this unfortunately and it then escalated into something that couldn't be resolved. The Spirit HAS to be our guide on when it is appropriate to reach out in love -

Obviously, organizational "apologies" are highly symbolic actions, really quite different from the kind of interpersonal apologies that we are familiar with in day-to-day social interactions. Personal apologies are rarely risky and often make everyone happier, whereas organizational apologies are fraught with legal and PR risk. So those who demand this or that apology from various organizations are either dissimulating or naive when they say something like, "It's just a simple apology, it really doesn't mean anything, all they have to do is say they are sorry."

On the other hand, it is easy for PR-minded organizations to use "enemies" (which go by the term "anti-Mormons" in the Church) to justify a host of dishonest and unjust actions or statements. An organization can easily end up thinking like this: "If we tell the truth, our enemies will use it against us, so we are better off lying and we are justified in doing so." Dress that up in euphemistic terms and add a dose of denial, and that's essentially how most organizations operate, I think.

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