Comment Angst

By amazing coincidence, three B'nacle group blogs all posted on "the comment problem" on the same day (Dec. 2) last week. FMH, in characteristically blunt style in a post titled Mormon Troll Morality, lamented "a particularly enthusiastic influx of troll vomit" over the past few weeks. Yum. T&S offered erudite reflections on post-Bannergate meanness that seems to be on the rise in B'nacle comments. Just remember that "David" is DKL and "Dave" is me. Finally, some guy at BT posted a short piece apparently trying to pump up the BT Comment Policy from its present three words to an extravagent nine words. So now let's talk about it.

1. Seizing the moment, Ned Flanders registered his frustration yesterday in a post titled Bloggers to Commenters: Drop Dead, unleashing a spirited exchange that is now up to 70 comments. I'm not really interested in rehashing a general discussion on comments, but if there is something you just have to add, post away.

2. Inspired by all this comment angst, I fiddled around with my own DMI Comments FAQ. The only real topic worth discussing here is: How much do you dislike my comment queue? I'm not fond of it as a commenter, but it really simplifies comment management as a blogmaster.

3. This is partly a technology war between blogmasters and spammers. When I started blogging two years ago, comments were a very new thing. Comment spamming followed shortly thereafter, igniting a sudden need for comment management functionality (for example, the early Radio comments gave the blogmaster no ability to edit or delete posted comments!!). And so the battle rages. With a comment queue, I achieve total victory as a blogmaster but sacrifice immediate posting. That isn't really an option for higher-volume group blogs, but it works for me.

4. Terminology: Yes, there is a difference between spammers, trolls, and "offensive comments," but after awhile they all mush together if you're a site admin. Spam is annoying, but at least it's not personal. No power known to man can make a troll happy (or even admit they're being treated fairly), so there's really no point in trying to placate them, just get rid of them. Since what is "offensive" is a fairly subjective judgment, different sites will apply different standards to the third category, but almost everyone has their hot buttons. I often try emailing the author, but the email address on problem comments is generally phony (no surprise). If anyone knows of any particularly clever or effective comment policy statements, post a link. It might be nice to see how other blogging communities outside the B'nacle are dealing with "comment problems."

Note: The dreaded comment queue is in effect, so expect a delay of an hour or two before your comment posts to the public weblog.

Comments

[Randy B.]

Since you asked, I detest the comment queue. Detest. It makes it virtually impossible to have a conversation that goes beyond one or two exchanges.

[Clark Goble]

I agree by the way. With some people there is no way to make them happy, short of them running the blog. Which is why I actually encourage cross referencing between blogs. I have a lot of blogs, both Mormon and philosophical, that rather than make a big comment I make a blog post. Might I suggest that those who feel too restricted by comments do that as well?

[John Mansfield]

Tyler Cowan at Marginal Revolution had an item on his experimentation with comments. One of his observations: "The more that comments are regularly available, the more rapidly the quality of comments falls. The quality of comments stays high when it is periodic, not automatic, and when we request comments specifically."

I think the moderation produced by your comment queue can be a good thing for many types of sites. I don't have any problem with it.

[danithew]

Switch to WordPress and use the Akismet plugin. Bye bye spam.

[Guy Murray]

Dave, I don't have any great insight into commenting, banning, or any of the rest; however, my own simplistic view of comments, editing, or what have you is that a blog ownwer/administrator on a private blog, has the absolute right to delete, alter, edit or change in anyway, any comment by any person.

It's indeed unfortunate people are irresponsible, particularly on the Internet, and blogs with their comments; however, I think that is going to be a constant as long there is free access to blogs and commenting.

As for your comment queue: Well, it's different, but not really annoying. It's your blog. You should be able to institute whatever commenting policy works best for you, including "censorship" whatever that means on a private blog.

[Crystal]

I think the comment queque us a little annoying in that it gets in the way of cohesive conversation in the comments section.

But you do what you gotta do, so my complaining won't be too loud. :)

[a random John]

The comment queue is the #1 reason why I don't post here. Ever. This post included.

But seriously, it cuts down on the interactivity of the blog. Maybe interactivity isn't what you want, but it is what some commenters want.

It seems like a queue for new commenters and a whitelist for approved commenters is reasonable idea.

[a random John]

Did I mention that the fact that there is no feedback indicating that my comment is in a queue is very disconcerting? Do you get lots of duplicate or near duplicate comments in the queue? It might be because you hit "Post" then POOF! Your post is gone!

[a random John]

Did I mention that the fact that there is no feedback indicating that my comment is in a queue is very disconcerting? Do you get lots of duplicate or near duplicate comments in the queue? It might be because you hit "Post" then POOF! Your post is gone!

[Geoff J]

I suspect your comment queue probably reduces your total visits numbers but it might not be too impactful on your unique visitor number. Discussions bring visitors back over and over to see what the conversation is about. The comment queue has a major dampening effect on discussions though. If you don't mind shorter threads and a drop in overall visitor traffic and pageviews then the current strategy works just fine.

[fMhLisa]

Oh the drama.

I don't mind the queue. But then I rarely have the time to follow along in a conversation anyway, So by the time I come back to check hours or days later, I expect things to have moved on. Just one more sad reminder that the universe does not (yet) revolve around me.

[Bryce I]

I agree with Clark. Trackback, folks, trackback!

Of course, 95% of the spam we get at M* is trackback spam. :(

[chris goble]

I don't mind the comment delay. It can lead to cross commenting, but generally well articulated comments stand on their own much more that quik ripostes. However, I tend not to enjoy blogs that have high comment to post ratios. They tend to suffer forum problems.

[Dave]

Thanks for the feedback. I've decided to *turn off* the comment queue for now. I have put a "comment queue toggle" on the top of my right sidebar, indicating the operational status of the comment queue (on or off) at any given time.

[NFlanders]

Random John is funny.

I am commenting just to see my comment come up immediately. It feels great, Dave! (Of course, inane comments like this may prompt you to turn the queue back on, but I'm willing to risk it.)

[Dave]

Ned, you'll also be able to see your DMI comment at the *top* of the MA comment list box. It seems to run off the queue time stamp, not public posting, so all the DMI comments started halfway down the list, if they even showed up at all! So unfair.

[a random John]

Hooray for the off switch! One final note, I think that the comment queue caused not only duplicate posts by the same person, but it also caused redundant posting by others since several people might post what is basically the same response to a post or comment not knowing that Randy B. or Geoff J. has already beaten them to the punch.

However I do agree that it is better that a "bad" comment not go up at all than for it to go up, generate responses, and then come down leaving the responses dangling.

Now is when I wax poetic about Slashcode...

[J. Stapley]

Is there a reason this coinsides with the ABEV post about the berlin wall?

[Randy B.]

Free at last, free at last . . . .

[Ann]

#11 fmhLisa: Re: the universe - give it time, dear, give it time.

[Steve EM]

Dave,

Obviously you consider my deleted tongue-in-cheek diatribe over at BT against a certain European island tribe as representative of the rogue comment problem. But I don't understand then why your similar satirical bigotry against Evangelicals (as if they’re all hate filled Mormon temple picketers) is ok.

[Dave]

Steve EM, as to the BT thread, some sort of cleanup was requested by several bloggers. "Tongue-in-cheek" jabs don't always come across quite as innocently as intended. Nothing personal.

As for my criticism of some Evangelical behavior, there's nothing satirical about it. Some Evangelicals think they can wrap their offensive conduct in the love of Jesus and that makes it all okay or even praiseworthy. I think that sort of thinking is shallow and hypocritical -- it sure seems that way to those on the receiving end.

[GeorgeD]

FMH Lisa was very disingenuous about her troll posting at FMH. She made it look like she was taking comments from trolls but she wasn't taking any. Her ire was provoked (she said she was so mad she could spit) when I would not relent on my assertion that masturbation was a sin. So she banned me from the board and removed a number of my messages.

FMH is a play nice blog.

[Dave]

GeorgeD, I missed that exchange, but as a blogmaster I tend to sympathize with challenges faced by those running a forum that's open to the world. And you don't make it any easier by posting a phony email address. I'll admit that FMH might very well have jumped the gun and cut off your comments before you were able to come to the point you were trying to reach. But if you feel shafted, well that's just one of the frustrations bloggers have to learn to deal with.

In any case, since FMH basically adopted an early version of my own DMI comment policy, I can hardly disagree with their approach.